Pull Petition

Subject: Re: Pull Petition Sun Feb 21, 2010 4:57 pm

I`m all for pull, as long as one pull takes up all stamina, and admins watch pullers like hell to make sure that they dont constantly steal kills, or theres some mod that makes pullers not be able to take kills lol

Also I`d like if pull range is reduced to push range. . .

Subject: Re: Pull Petition Sun Feb 21, 2010 6:33 pm

i guess it depends what you specifically do when its brought back

Are you bringing it back as is?

or are you bringing back a modded pull?

i suggest like before that the pulls range should be decreased to the same as choke and push. then increase the amount of energy needed to pull.

Subject: Re: Pull Petition Sun Feb 21, 2010 7:39 pm

It's still not as the game as intended...why does there still need to be so many restrictions on it? Double pulling is no worse than multi-pushing or infinite choking. Why complain about one of the three, just because one has a longer range?

Subject: Re: Pull Petition Sun Feb 21, 2010 7:40 pm

Making it so pull has the same range as push totally defeats the purpose of bringing it back in the first place. As it is now, the pull takes about 80 out of 100 stamina in the abyss... I am not happy about it. I would rather have no pull than an almost useless pull.

My opinion is that Jman made it like that on purpose to reduce the amount of double pulling (a non-existant rule which he will boot you for). However, double pulling is no different than double pushing. When you double push someone you are ensuring that they will tumble and that you will be able to kill them, aka guaranteeing your kill. Double pull is no different...

If you're gonna boot people for double pulling, well then I'd rather you take pull away cause that is simply ridiculous, especially when you consider double pulling puts your stamina bar in the negatives...

Subject: Re: Pull Petition Sun Feb 21, 2010 10:07 pm

The thing that pisses me off is the range on the pulling. Im on the cantina and i get pulled from the JOG roof. jesus christ.

Subject: Re: Pull Petition Mon Feb 22, 2010 12:54 am

{JOG}SnakeBite wrote:: I`m all for pull, as long as one pull takes up all stamina, and admins watch pullers like hell to make sure that they dont constantly steal kills, or theres some mod that makes pullers not be able to take kills lol

Also I`d like if pull range is reduced to push range. . .

well ppl don't have the time or interest to sit and watch "like hell" to make sure no one's stealing kills.

also, making it so that pull costs all stamina AND has a shhorter range totally destroys the power of the pull. you might as well play without any force at all.
i would support either pull costing a great deal of stamina, OR pull having a shorter range with the normal stamina cost.

i haven't really thought about this till it was brought up by sinister. and believe it or not, it actually seems like a great idea.

in a 1v1 it would make sense to allow regular pull, since pull doesn't tumble you in close range. so you can block their pull till you get close to them, and they'll be the one who's vulnerable. yes its true that they can run away and try to pull again, but you can follow them and keep close to them so they stay vulnerable. at first it might seem like an incredibly hard task, but we can all get used to it just like we got used to fighting with pushers/chokers.

if you took 2 players, with identical intelligence/potential, isolate them in a server so that there's no one else involved, and let them practice the game with pullers allowed, they will both be equally good at fighting with/against pullers. because when the first person finds a strategy to kill the second person, the second person WILL find a way to counter that, and vice versa.

the thing is, we are more used to accepting the fact that pulling is bad, and thus we never practice using pullers. if i were to go out now and fight against a puller, ofcoarse i would end up with a pathetic score, cuz i never practiced fighting against a puller, thinking that it's pointless since pulling's banned all over the place anyway.

it's like trying to switch to using a newer version of a program from an older one. there will be some features we dont tend to like because we have to get used to them. we have to start over again, and we don't like that.
allowing pull works the same way. we don't like that we have to go back to being a beginner and get used to fighting pullers (clearly evident from the number of current votes for the poll 4 for/9 against). the reason sinister wants to allow pull, this is just my assumption, is because he already mastered a lot of the things besides pull already. he wants to learn something new.

allowing pull will definately change the fighting style of everyone, and ppl will definitely start complaining about it, and there will definitely be some regular players that the abyss will lose. but the players that leave will be the players that will miss out on the new excitement of the game, and the players that stay will adapt and become much greater players by learning from the lessons fighting against a puller has to offer.

now, the abyss is a public server, therefore, there WILL BE players who just simply go around and double pull the hell out of everyone. so to start out with, i think pull should be modded to insure that only single pulll can be applied OR it should have a shorter range. it's important to notice, though, that how the gamestyle will change will vary on which one of those two mods are applied in the server. i haven't put much thought into how they will be different yet, but if i had to choose right now, i would say the single pull mod.

Subject: Re: Pull Petition Mon Feb 22, 2010 2:39 am

Thank you Blaine for bringing some intelligence into this argument. However I do not agree that it should be single pull or the range should be reduced. Pull is the counter balance to choke. Pull affects one person, has a long range... yet it can be blocked and it most of the time it does not tumble you. Choke cannot be blocked and it deals damage. Push is the medium. Choke and pull counter balance one another. Don't know how many times I have to say it.

I don't want pull for an added challenge, but that is a nice perk. My days of proving myself are long over... I just want to play star wars and enjoy myself, that's all.

I just want people to give it a chance... Stop bitching about how cheap it is cause it's no cheaper than choking then saber throwing (the zarex) or double pushing. Those are simply methods to guarantee your kill and that's all double pulling is. If you want to get technical push is worse as far as "cheap" goes. It affects up to I think 9 people and will tumble you a lot more often.

Subject: Re: Pull Petition Mon Feb 22, 2010 3:25 am

well sinister, i've put some thought into this, and realized that ppl have blinded to believe that pulling is bad.

and the reason i'm suggesting single pull is this. there will be ppl who are stubborn and complain like little kids about double pulling, though, as you pointed out, it's needed to balance out the choke force. but they can't see the benefits of pull as well as you can. if you look at it from their perspective, when they're pulled they would think, "WTF! ppl are pulling like shitheads! You can't do crap if they pull you!"

For you, you would know exactly what you would try to do. For other ppl, they would think, "well, i can't escape from pull, so it must be not possible". And i'm not picking on anyone. pretty much everyone more or less use this logic, consciously or unconsciously. but what i'm saying is that ppl will find it hard to accept pull being brought back to the game.

Also, sinister, there are players like you who can learn to deal with any situation in a game. and there are players like me who are decent at learning to deal with situations in a game. Players like Tyrlan (it seems from what he's posted) are careless about pulling being allowed cuz he can learn to deal with it. But frustration will be caused in a lot of decent players' minds if pull is allowed with no restrictions.

Pull was lost from this game, which is good in a sense that it gave ppl the chance to learn about push (this is just a personal opinion). instead of having the whole hero team playing as aayla, we now actually have a lot of decent pushers. i myself wouldn't have learned to use push as well as i can unless pull was withdrawn. but now that push is pretty popular, we need to bring pull back, so we can keep getting better instead of considering what we know to be the end of the game.

so yeah, i think it's necessary to put restrictions on the pull so more ppl will be willing to accept it being brought back. notice i said that pull should be modded "to start out with". if the abyss stops getting members, i know meph will take it off. we gotta take it slow and let ppl adapt to the fact that pull isn't so bad.

Subject: Re: Pull Petition Mon Feb 22, 2010 5:58 am

you see sinister, this is where the word "semi" kicks in inside "semi democracy"

you ARE NOT to make your own rules in MY server, is that clear?
double pulling WILL NOT be allowed and for anyone who refuses to enforce that rule, your going against me and the server, and i WILL ban you from this site server and chat

the post has been turned into a poll as you see, by wednesday, maybe later, friday or sunday or sometime, we'll see which has the most votes, if no then im dragging pull's ass straight out of there, if yes then im gonna make 1 to 3 more polls about what we're gonna do with pull

and sinister dont even think about making a post talking about how double pulling should be allowed and getting everyone to say yes, cause even if literally everyone on this game and on other games tell me to allow it, im not gonna do it

as for this "getting used to it" crap, i already had my time with pull, before AND after i was skilled, i didnt like it, and i just dont wanna deal with it again, thats why im saying no to it

Subject: Re: Pull Petition Mon Feb 22, 2010 3:27 pm

I agree with those who feel double pulling should be allowed. In fact I think as many pulls as it takes should be allowed. Its part of the game. The developers put it in there and the community dumbs it down because they say its not fair, menaing they can't handle being killed when they don't even see the person doing it to them at first. That and all players playing in there favorite area of the "JOG Roof" ( what it was called at one point) makes them sitting ducks for it.

Unfortunaty more players wish to mindlessly run around this one area then rather actually play a full map andhave to use their heads a bit more. It breaks up the villians and reduces choking greatly. Now I will admit the mount of pullers can get ridiculous just as much as 10 chokers can as well. . . but players managed back in the day and got better because of it. . . it can be done again.

Now also you hear that players say that its ( pull force) reach is greater than others. . . .but it should also be noted that other force powers such as choke engages faster than push or that certain other characters have longer reach than others when using their force. ( I won't say which ones but it is true) So that arguement goes out the window.

I vote yes. Pulling is apart of the game. . . let it loose!

Subject: Re: Pull Petition Mon Feb 22, 2010 3:47 pm

I still don't give a fuck. Lol. Pulling may cause me to die a little more when they do what i say in the second problem, but w/e. Doesn't matter to me. It won't inhibit my own ability to kill, or quite a few others.

The first problem with having it would be the mods... which makes it very hard to pull effectively when you haven't the energy to follow through with even a single pull. Jeeze.

The second problem, would be the factor of arena and courtyard camping pullers. Meaning... like 6 pullers camping a large open area and pulling you around like a rag doll. I don't let that happen to me as i spawn elsewhere and wait until the opportunity arises to kill them... but not everybody can do that since the pullers will just follow in packs and camp things. I greatly dislike it when pullers pull you out of your spawn and double pull you to the point where you can't move without being yanked. That's spawnkilling yes... but knowing how often an admin is on at times, it becomes a negative factor. I don't like it when they camp high buildings and do it as well, which should also be restricted if pull is returned.

Most people would use the argument that most pullers suck at pulling... well... MOST doesn't mean all. There are some good pullers that MAY or MAY NOT abuse it in the sense of Problem 2 in the rule-breaking aspect. Pullers may not look like they spawnkill at times, but they could be standing quite a distance from a spawn and yank you out, and get away with it. These are the times i feel like booting them when i can't... lol. And with the open space camping, there WILL be killstealing from pushers by pullers, there wILL be killstealing from puller to puller. THERE WILL BE ALMOST NO WAY TO GET THROUGH A DECENT GROUP OF PULLERS CAMPING AN OPEN SPACE. No matter how many villains you put into it. But once again... i don't give a fuck. It will go however it'll go, and we'll all deal with it. Which brings me to problem 3...

Problem 3, the constant bitching. I swear, the 10 year old kids that talk on mic these days... i go to the abyss for 2 minutes, and these two kids join, and start immediately bitching about the pulling and yelling on mic. I don't want to have to deal with that, and nobody else with a mic wants to either. Even from those that aren't little boys. Lol. But we'll have to get used to it unless people feel like booting mic-spammers. We shouldn't have to listen and put up with that shit while we could be trying to have a decent conversation, forcing us to mute our mics... which we shouldn't even have to do.

I may have missed something, but w/e. If i missed it, it probably isn't important enough.

Subject: Re: Pull Petition Mon Feb 22, 2010 5:28 pm

It is obvious that it is not a semi-democracy... this is communist tactics lol. You booted Jub Jub for 10mins for double pulling. He was given no warning! You did the same thing to me and I was given no warning! I know sure as shit that it was not in the admin announcements at the time and we are both server admins... You said you didn't import the "modded" pull, but imo you did it on purpose... just don't want to admit to it.

You know what, it is your server and it is your site. You can do whatever the hell it is that you want. I mean you did have a multi-choke mod in your server at one point... My point is you are not being fair. You have the option to refresh the game and bring back some challenge, but quite frankly you are being a little titty baby about it... and so are a lot of other people.

I would love to see some of ya'll 1v1 SuperDuper when he's on heroes cause this is what he does... Spawns far away and wookiee bombs you, changes to a luke and moves to another spawn and then repeats.

Subject: Re: Pull Petition Mon Feb 22, 2010 5:38 pm

As for your poll, I think it's a crock of shit. Take a look at the replies in this topic that are in favor of the pull and take a look at the ones that aren't... Now I voted in the poll last night, but I'm willing to bet there are at least 4 or 5 people who have already posted in favor who have not voted in the poll... and they may never will. So I call BS... but like I said you are omnipotent... even you yourself said so. So I guess this whole thing was kinda pointless in the first place? lmao

There is a reason why people's votes in the presidential election mean next to nothing...

Guest

double pulling is beyond a noob's dream

Subject: Re: Pull Petition Mon Feb 22, 2010 6:36 pm

double pulling is out of the question.

and i would think it be best for the range to be decreased because it gives them a huge advantage. it causes the enemy to draw closer to be able to attack. its common sense. a longer sword gives a better advantage. it almost as if the puller can "attack without being attacked". and why not just increase every force ability to pulls range if the pushes range is useless?

Subject: Re: Pull Petition Mon Feb 22, 2010 10:20 pm

Alex...the bigger the sword does not mean the better.

What does it matter how long the range is? What does it matter if they double pull you or not? What does it matter if you can't move after being pulled? You guys realize you can't move after being pushed MOST of the time, whether it's once or twice? Do you know that choke stops you in your tracks and you can't do shit, once you're caught (for most ppl)? Why are you making such a big deal over ONE force power that is hardly ever used, and could actually make this game more fun and challenging?

Guest

the noobs... number of people that will pull until the game dies

Subject: Re: Pull Petition Mon Feb 22, 2010 11:46 pm

{DSB}Alex Ace wrote:: double pulling is out of the question.

and i would think it be best for the range to be decreased because it gives them a huge advantage. it causes the enemy to draw closer to be able to attack. its common sense. a longer sword gives a better advantage. it almost as if the puller can "attack without being attacked". and why not just increase every force ability to pulls range if the pushes range is useless?

First of all Alex, you're overestimating the power of pull. there's a defense against it, it's called block. why not just block his pulls in the first place. he can't pull forever u know

Second, you want to recover from a puller once they pull you, which is why you think double pull would be unfair. well, choke is allowed, and you can't recover from it once yo'ure caught, just like hyourinmaru said. and choking deals damage whether you're slow running/jumping or not. in your logic, choke should be unfair as well, but we found ways of dealing with it. and it's possible to find ways of dealing with pull also.

pull range decreased would make it weaker than push. now that i've thought about it, i don't know why i considered it in the first place. it wouldn't balance out the game at all, instead make it worse for the heroes.

change everything to pull range? do you really wanna be pushed by your teammates from a mile away? or be choked from a mile away while yo'ure trying to fight a pusher so you cant slow run? pull's range is what balances out choke's ability to go through blocks, plus they both affect one person unlike push. the range is fine.

but i guess it doesn't matter anymore since meph already stated that he wont allow it. it's his server after all.

Subject: Re: Pull Petition Mon Feb 22, 2010 11:56 pm

I thought Meph only said that he would debate it on this poll...which ppl should srsly think about voting 'yes' for! i mean it'd be so much more fun. yes...I would get pulled like hell all over the place, but think of it this way: at least I'll be able to fly, lol.

Subject: Re: Pull Petition Tue Feb 23, 2010 1:24 am

your right, im being a bunch of things, a baby..a little girl...a bitch...so on

do i care? not really
YOU sinister and everyone else are always telling me "its your server, do what you want with it" and sense you all wont leave me alone about that now im gonna make it come back to bite each and every one of you in the asses, im gonna do WHAT I WANT WITH IT right now

i really dont want pull back, i had my share of it when i could and couldnt fight it, and in both times i really didnt like it, and its now causing me more shit cause people are bitching at me more, the server is losing important people, and even i dont really wanna play in it anymore, so im taking the REGULAR PULL out, because its NOT FUCKING MODDED, and if you all have an issue with such then tough fucking shit, ill put it in void and you can play there allllllllllll you want

the bans were because i thought you two would know that if i hate pull id would OBVIOUSLY fucking ban the use of double pulling, call that whatever you want but i call it the OBVIOUS making of a rule, and it wasnt in the announcements because no one even fucking reads the announcements, so why even have them active? just taking up more typing space for the admins

if you have any concerns or problems with this message, please feel free to type them out for me to not give a shit unless you actually say something id care about...thank you for your time

I HAVE SPOKEN!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Subject: Re: Pull Petition Tue Feb 23, 2010 8:09 am

I respect your decision Meph, it IS your server and you should do whatever you want with it. You at least gave us a chance to try and get pull fully back into your server, but in the end you decided not to. That's fine by me. You should still put in Void though, lol. Smile

Subject: Re: Pull Petition Tue Feb 23, 2010 11:01 am

{GoR}Hyourinmaru wrote:: You should still put in Void though, lol.

{DSB}Mephiles The Dark wrote:: ill put it in void and you can play there allllllllllll you want

Subject: Re: Pull Petition Tue Feb 23, 2010 3:20 pm

Bah. Something was up with that pull. You can hardly finish a kill after even single pulling. But w/e. Don't care.

Subject: Re: Pull Petition Tue Feb 23, 2010 7:09 pm

i think pull should be back on a trial bases and if ppl start using it too much then its out of the q but it is ur server meph

Subject: Re: Pull Petition Tue Feb 23, 2010 9:26 pm

Bout time Jman, Good job.