JOG's high horse

Subject: JOG's high horse Sun Jul 11, 2010 5:31 pm

Jeff made a topic regarding Old School vs New School on the JOG site. My name is mentioned in the topic time and time again, and considering what I know and just who I am... I wanted to post. However, I am banned from the JOG site for expressing my opinions and beliefs. I was attacked and I defended myself which in their eyes was justification for a ban (this happened quite a while back). Anyway, seeing as how I was banned from the JOG site some time ago and was unsuccessful in registering today... I had Neji make a post for me regarding the Old School/New School topic for me. This is what it said...

***Jeff, you say that old school vs new school is merely a matter of opinion. I disagree and here is why.

Fact: Frantic, Trelum and Clean all came back to the game and played for quite some time. No disrespect, but at best they were alright kind of players, sometimes solid... but I was never ever impressed and neither were a lot of other people. Trelum himself said that I was the best player he had ever played with... this was something he had a hard time admitting due to pride issues, but eventually once we got on good terms he said it out of respect before he quit the game again.

Clean is the sole reason LSJ lost to FOG. His performance in that match was simply horrible.

Frantic's strongest point was his Anakin, and even then it was sub-par.

Ask anyone else from the time that played with these people. Ask the old members of FOG about Trelum and ask LSJ about Clean and Frantic. They will say similar things I'm sure. Now, you could say maybe these guys lost their desire or fire, but I don't think that's the case. I don't really care anymore and I still play at a high level, as do you Jeff... as does Isac. So the only other explanation is that they aren't as great as they were made out to be, at least in comparison to the new school. Again, I mean no disrespect...

There are some other facts, but I will neglect to mention them... I don't intend on starting a flame-war and I'm sure that's what will ensue if I say those things. I don't think they're necessary anyway when you take a look at the already blatantly obvious facts that lie before you. The only great players that were mentioned, who played both "eras", that have maintained their skill level and adapted to the new gameplay are yourself (Jeff) and Superduper. Leonardo I don't really consider old school because he didn't get good till after LOE which is around the time I got good (I think). Isac and Deity are more solid players than great. I played with Chicali numerous times a long time ago and the only thing I ever saw him do was double/triple pull spawn-kill with Aayla...

You admit that the skillsets of today are much better than the past then go on to compare it to building a house. I think a better example is human beings over time. Point being, we have evolved. Not only have we innovated on the things that were founded years ago, but have also invented many many more. You say old school has more variety, I say new school is more diverse. We have more at our disposal. Show me 3 old school players like Neji, Tyrlan and myself that can go into any server and get damage increase, compete with us both individually and in groups, use the plethora of characters that we can and know all the secrets we know. There is nobody.

Pit me, Neji, Tyrlan, Kratos, Devil, Mephiles and Viking against anybody and we will come out on top (yes I am giving Viking some credit, he has earned it). Old school's best bet of winning any type of match, albeit hypothetical, is to use Jeff, Leonardo (don't really count imo), Super... who else... um, that's it. Maybe FEAR. It doesn't matter, anybody you use doesn't matter. The only way you would even stand a chance is if pulling was allowed and even then I doubt it would be enough because all 7 of those new school players I mentioned know how to fight with and against pullers.

This debate was over when you admitted the skill-sets of today are better than yesteryear. What decides who wins a battle is which team is better, nothing more... nothing less. Variety or knowledge or whatever doesn't have any weight when you consider all of the new school's (greatest) players can use any character or any style of play to accomplish what the situation calls for. We are just as varied and well rounded as you, if not more. We just don't show it often because it's not usually necessary...

It is my belief the new school would win this fantasy battle with ease. Your greatest players came back to the game... there was nothing great about them. You say the old school has more people to use... I don't see it. I am strictly speaking great players, not solid or good, and as far as great goes, we have this in the bag...

I will end this segment with a quote from SOR Mike. Someone who has played in both heydays, someone who has no bias...

"As a person who has been on this game for the long haul i can say without a doubt that the level of play is waaaaayyyy higher today than it was even a year ago. The best now are exponentially better than the best of the old school."

As for perfect block and pull...

My beef with perfect block is that it can make almost any ok player that much better. The problem a lot of players have with it, me being one of them, is that it gets abused... it gets used as a form of compensation for the lesser skilled people, just like the lesser skilled people compensate by specifically scrap-fighting/headhunting to garner kills. This is something I have come to accept... but I do not like it. Then again I guess using something as compensation for a particular situation is a legit tactic... but as I said it makes ok players better and as a result, has dumbed down the game. Example: People rather perfect block an aerial than backslash. <- This is pure laziness and it is exactly what the perfect block promotes and encourages.

Pull I have no problem with. I have tried to get this accepted by the majority of the community numerous times only to fail each and every time. It is allowed in the vVv server, although it is hardly used. I will say that I do agree with Tyrlan here. Pulling induces spawn-killing/camping very very easily. You know why? It's the range. The only (usual) time pullers become a problem, as Tyrlan said, is when there are a lot of them. God knows how fun it is to be tossed around and around, pull by pull until someone finally kills you or you get away... or how awesome it is to waltz out of the cantina without a care in the world only to be double pulled to the courtyard and Aayla raped.

Like I said though, I have no problem with them. I adjust and adapt accordingly. I make them waste all their force then get in their face. Pullers don't know what to do when you are right up against them, this is where they are weakest because you take their range advantage from them. But the reason it is blacklisted among many nowadays, in my opinion at least, is because when compared to choke and push it is much cheaper. There is little effort involved in playing as a puller. You're not required to be close to your opposition, or to keep prying at them till they put their block down. All you need is a spot where you can see enemies. And just the opposite, there is usually a lot of effort involved into actually killing a puller, at least a good one. You are almost required to make yourself vulnerable to do so.

It is much easier to obtain kills with pull than it is with choke or push and once again, this is due mostly in part to the range and ultimately this is why it is banned. However, as I think Jeff said it is a part of the game and helps to balance and level the playing field. It gives everyone something else to master using and to master fighting against... regardless of its cheap qualities. I can live without it... but I do wish it would come back. It would give heroes a chance to do something other than ramp, run and scrap all day. I highly doubt it tho...***

The above message was immediately deleted and edited by Deity. His reasons for doing so, apparently are because I should be man enough to post it myself. Well... I think posting a message myself on the JOG site poses a problem when I'm banned. Let's not forget why I was banned in the first place; I made a post that didn't agree with their opinions. Brilliant logic on his part.

Here is what Deity's next message said (the one that replaced mine):

***Edited By Deity.

Neji..... dont do this. there are times you are cool, there are times your not, this is one of the later.

weither or not sinister believes all that i truly dont care, this is not deleted b/c of 1 persons opinion. Its deleted b/c he didnt bother to post it himself.

Sinister you got problems with jog thats fine and good, but if you got shit to say you say it dont send some kid over here with a mesage. man up next time.

this going back and forth of this guy said what on this site and yadda yadda yadda.... if you got enough of a opinion to write up over a page on the topic clearly you care about it, dont puss out and send neji to do some shit that makes you both look bad.

this isnt about your opinion, its about the way it was presented, i hope thats clear.

and for w/e its worth, your new skill squad of random diff clan guys of viking, you neji, tyrlan would get beat and be beat very, very decidedly. a 2nd or 3rd rate jog squad would be your team, as would sor afh and prob sdj/oes. Regardless of individual skill you guys arent a team, at all, and the old timers fought with the same team for a year or more.

That plus you speak of a puller?!!? honestly youd get your ass handed to you, and its not debatable. I haven't seen anyone in far too long that knows how to deal with good pullers. a good puller you dont even see, and nullifies all the cheap ass choke moves that exist today. you forget, pulling was done away with by the clans you derived from/originated from b/c they couldn't keep up and had to play with separate rules.

Your welcome to debate this all day with me, they are just opinions, but if your interested it need be you and not some third party with a note.

I already explained that I am banned from the JOG site and that I could not register. I am pretty sure Deity is/was aware of this, although he pretends not to be. I could be wrong there...

As for what he said about our "random skill squad"... once again another presumptuous claim made by Deity. Myself, Neji, Kratos and Devil all have match experience with each other, meaning we know how to work together. I have had experience with Jman as well. Tyrlan and Viking are great players in their own respect and I guess you're not aware of this, but it's rather simple for such great players to get in the groove of teamwork and play well together and with chemistry. I guess you don't understand this considering you were never that caliber of player...

In other words, we are a team. Genius.

AFH couldn't hold a candle to us. Dizzerz and Jarm got worked by LSJ in a match even when they used pullers and LSJ didn't. AFH was a joke clan full of pullers. SOR lost to Ninja twice in scrims, bet you didn't know that... bet you didn't know that I was in both of them either, bet you didn't know that one of them was supposed to be a match but they changed it to a scrim mid-match upon realizing they were going to lose. SDJ wasn't strong in groups... please. Nice try Deity, but no dice. Stick to the methamphetamine.

As for pulling, I have no problem with it. You haven't seen me play with or against pullers and obviously didn't read the part where Jeff mentioned that I knew how to play against one. Ask your boy Chicali what happened when he came back randomly and tried to double-pull with Aayla. Shit ask Clean about the time he quit our 1v1. I can't forget Frantic... ask him about all the spankings he used to get in the LSJ server. You don't know anything dude. Your opinions and statements are based off of things that occurred years ago... this is why you are so weak and always will be.

Please, brag more about AFH and how you "invented" the backslash. Are those your greatest accomplishments? Being in one the game's biggest joke clans, a clan that couldn't wipe their own ass without a puller... ever notice how you are about the only player who attempts to brag on AFH? Let's not forget you popularized the backslash, an already presently known move. Those are truly some of the game's most notable feats. I applaud you with nothing but respect... Rolling Eyes

Now please, go choke on your crackpipe, crackfiend.

Thank you for deleting my post and once again showcasing JOG can't handle it when someone of reputation disagrees with them. I'm sorry you're not able to cope with the truth of the situation. I guess you will never learn you no longer hold the cards here. Just another reason for everyone to hold your clan in contempt. Remember the first step into solving a problem is admitting you have one...

I hope one day soon you come into the abyss or the vVv server so that I can familiarize you with pressing start up x up x.

lol!

Now I realize maybe this is a bit harsh or disrespectful, but quite frankly I don't give a fuck. I'm sick and tired of bullshit that comes from some of JOG's ignorant and obstinate members. The post that I made was pretty damn civil and when you reject logical discussion, you receive this. My name was mentioned by several people several times. I think that gives me the right to reply, whether Neji did it for me or not shouldn't matter. I was not trying to stir shit, I even said "I have no intention of starting a flame war". Now I post this here so everyone can publicly bear witness to the hypocrisy that is periodically exuded from some of JOG's members. Plus, Deity needed to take a seat... big-time.

Subject: Re: JOG's high horse Sun Jul 11, 2010 6:32 pm

Well said my nigga

Subject: Re: JOG's high horse Sun Jul 11, 2010 7:11 pm

Just in case it isn't yet known to you, the deletion was because Sinister wasn't supposed to be posting or having someone send posts for him period because of his being banned previously, meaning no message passing.

Now that i see what you said... I don't see the harm in the comment, however it was deleted only because you weren't supposed to have a post there at all. Why Sinister was banned initially i don't know. Nor do i know if it was justified since i haven't an idea what he said pre-ban (or just don't remember).

Neji's ban... idk. I'm assuming Neji reacted that way because he thought they deleted it because it was Sinister's opinion disagreeing with his, etc. How unfortunate... (god damn it the abyss smilies don't have a smilie that is effective enough to put here)

Otherwise... i don't see the need to respond directly to that post since there really isn't anything i feel the need to add or comment on. Neutral

Subject: Re: JOG's high horse Sun Jul 11, 2010 7:17 pm

Tylran is correct. About why Deity deleted Neji's post. And Neji was banned because Deity even stated or it might have been Masta, that no message passing would be allowed. Then Neji and Deity have a flame war over a different thing which resulted in Neji's ban. Just to clear things up and you seriously made a topic about us once again where no where in NSvsOS did we flame you. You flamed us first in a topic that was no flame whatso ever towards any of you.

Subject: Re: JOG's high horse Sun Jul 11, 2010 7:17 pm

Alright I know I am known to be an ass on game and chat, but as hopefully all of you have come to understand is that I know what I'm talking about on forums, and know my way around a good dispute. This topic is simply laughable because it is just what Jog is infamous for, yet Jog, and people so in love with them have yet to realize.

Sinister wrote:: Fact: Frantic, Trelum and Clean all came back to the game and played for quite some time. No disrespect, but at best they were alright kind of players, sometimes solid... but I was never ever impressed and neither were a lot of other people. Trelum himself said that I was the best player he had ever played with... this was something he had a hard time admitting due to pride issues, but eventually once we got on good terms he said it out of respect before he quit the game again.

This is true. Back when I was in LSJ WHILE Mr.Clean was in Lsj I thought nothing special of him. I heard the stories of how he rivaled Superduper as being the best in jedi, and how he was Jog's best player. Yet when I played with him, I didn't think he was much better then me, And this was 3 years ago? I wasn't even that good at the time. I knew from playing with mr.clean that kratos, lak, and sinister were all way better then him, at that time, and as of now.

I remember when Trelum came back to the game as well. He was in Fog around the time I was, And we got in countless arguments, but if I remember right, we did a 1vs1, and I won, again at this time I wasn't even that good.

On a side note, Zarex was regarded as a really good player back in the day, he has come back to the game multiple times, just to quit once again. Well he came back to the game and was on it for about a month. I 1vs1'd him and beat him by at least 8. This was the guy who beat Superduper in a 1vs1 on villains. Zarex even asked If I used to be in SDJ, because my playing style was just like that of SDJ. Which is a fairly honorable comment considering SDJ being at the top.

Sinister wrote:: Clean is the sole reason LSJ lost to FOG. His performance in that match was simply horrible.

This is true again, Clean kept running and getting killed making his teammates pick up his slack. Kratos even told me that when they had to pause the match to wait for mr.clean to do something, that he tried to make it a 3vs3 instead of 4vs4, to kick clean out of the match.

Sinister wrote:: Frantic's strongest point was his Anakin, and even then it was sub-par.

I have played with Frantic several times and have thought that he was overrated, just like the rest of Jogs "top players"

Sinister wrote:: Now, you could say maybe these guys lost their desire or fire, but I don't think that's the case. I don't really care anymore and I still play at a high level, as do you Jeff... as does Isac. So the only other explanation is that they aren't as great as they were made out to be, at least in comparison to the new school. Again, I mean no disrespect...

Losing the desire to compete is no excuse for playing bad. After being off this game for 3-4 months and playing ps3, I came back with no desire to compete, yet I still played at a high level, and continue to do so. I have nothing to play for, nothing to prove, yet I still get increase whenever I play.

Sinister wrote:: The only great players that were mentioned, who played both "eras", that have maintained their skill level and adapted to the new gameplay are yourself (Jeff) and Superduper. Leonardo I don't really consider old school because he didn't get good till after LOE which is around the time I got good (I think). Isac and Deity are more solid players than great. I played with Chicali numerous times a long time ago and the only thing I ever saw him do was double/triple pull spawn-kill with Aayla...

Jeff is a solid player, he is good at scrapping, and staying alive/running away. Although it is not something hard to do, he is still looked upon as the greatest Jog has to offer, and I agree. However, I got in a dispute with a couple Jog members on my playing style. They said something close to this" You(devil) are not a great player, all you ever do is run away, kill people from behind, and scrap people. I don't think your good because your playing style" This is exactly what jeff does, hell it's who I got it from. I do not do it to the extreme that Jeff does, nor do I have a party of clan members to back me up in public servers, But I do not know how you can call your clan leader the best, and then someone who plays similar at times not even good. Again something Jog is infamous for, but that can be left for another day. But I'm not saying that is all I can do, I incorporate all playing styles, and have made it my own. I am also great at rushing as well.

As for Chicali, He was an overrated scrub. I got in many disputes with him over mic, because he kept double pulling and stealing my kills. Never once did he show even an ounce of skill.

Sinister wrote:: You admit that the skillsets of today are much better than the past then go on to compare it to building a house. I think a better example is human beings over time. Point being, we have evolved. Not only have we innovated on the things that were founded years ago, but have also invented many many more. You say old school has more variety, I say new school is more diverse. We have more at our disposal. Show me 3 old school players like Neji, Tyrlan and myself that can go into any server and get damage increase, compete with us both individually and in groups, use the plethora of characters that we can and know all the secrets we know. There is nobody.

Don't really know why I'm not mentioned with the three above, since I always get increase whenever I play, but w/e.

The "noobs" nowadays probably know just as many tricks as the "great" players of the past. It used to be couple years ago, You do a ramp, or a bubble hop, hell even float choke, and it would almost guarantee a kill, because no one knew how to defend against it. Nowadays, everyone knows every trick, everyone knows every ramp, range of forces, every building, etc. Nowadays you can't get trick kills like you could before. You have to outsmart them now, like a game of chess. You know every move your opponent can make, and they know every move you can, but you still got to beat them. Hell when I was first in Fog, when you would bubble hop heroes plat as a maul an push you would get them every time, now it never works unless they aren't paying attention. The great players of today are the smartest players. Myself, Sinister, Tyrlan, Kratos, Mephiles, etc. are all well educated in how people think, and will react. Im not talking book smart, more mind smart.

Sinister wrote:: Pit me, Neji, Tyrlan, Kratos, Devil, Mephiles and Viking against anybody and we will come out on top (yes I am giving Viking some credit, he has earned it). Old school's best bet of winning any type of match, albeit hypothetical, is to use Jeff, Leonardo (don't really count imo), Super... who else... um, that's it. Maybe FEAR. It doesn't matter, anybody you use doesn't matter. The only way you would even stand a chance is if pulling was allowed and even then I doubt it would be enough because all 7 of those new school players I mentioned know how to fight with and against pullers.

This is true, Back in Lsj we had a challenge topic on the Jog site(back when it was the community site for jedi) asking anything 4 players or any clan to face kratos,lak,sinister,and myself. The only responses we received were from tyrlan, and Leonardo or someone nooby like that.

Sinister wrote:: Pull I have no problem with. I have tried to get this accepted by the majority of the community numerous times only to fail each and every time. It is allowed in the vVv server, although it is hardly used. I will say that I do agree with Tyrlan here. Pulling induces spawn-killing/camping very very easily. You know why? It's the range. The only (usual) time pullers become a problem, as Tyrlan said, is when there are a lot of them. God knows how fun it is to be tossed around and around, pull by pull until someone finally kills you or you get away... or how awesome it is to waltz out of the cantina without a care in the world only to be double pulled to the courtyard and Aayla raped.

Like Sinister said, pull increases the rate of spawnkilling/camping, Also it increases kill stealing ten fold. Like I have said many times before, Pull is the only force power that only has one defense. (push= block or jump, choke= slowrun, sprint, jump) pulls only defense is to block, cause if you jump you'll just get pulled. Pull gets cheap in numbers just like how choke is. Try facing a whole server full of Gor using vaders, fucking retarded. Thats what happens with pullers, they get abused. Back when I was in DsX? We did countless scrimms against Jog. There is one in particular that stood out though. We did a 5vs5 with one puller. Jog's team consisted of Jeff,Neji,Leo,Viking,Jub? anways, Neji was the puller. He had the highest score out of jog when they were on heroes. His score was 45-40? (No disrespect to Neji at all, He is one of the best) Well, When DsX had heroes I was the puller and my score was 45-20? Not trying to brag here, just saying that the DsX consisted of new players, and they were able to get more kills on a puller then Jog was able to on me.

Sinister wrote:: The above message was immediately deleted and edited by Deity. His reasons for doing so, apparently are because I should be man enough to post it myself. Well... I think posting a message myself on the JOG site poses a problem when I'm banned. Let's not forget why I was banned in the first place; I made a post that didn't agree with their opinions. Brilliant logic on his part.

Deity has done this countless times, so has other jog members. Whenever you go against something that is not in favor of them you are removed from there little community. Here is a perfect example of Jog...

Jeff once said, That when these disputes happen that he will not come to this site to respond, And I'm sure he tells the rest of his clan this. His reason for this is because he feels that this site is biased with myself, Sinister, Mephiles.. etc.

If you go to the Jog site to complain about something there clan does, or a member does you get flamed immediately, and most likely banned. If you come here and dispute something you are able to speak, you might get a little shit, but you would not be banned, unless your retarded like demoslayer or sparten(at times). With this being said, Why don't you come here and speak your reasoning? Doesn't seem fair how Jog can talk shit in public on there forums(and ofc who knows how many private forums) and get away with it. Im fairly certain if any clan did that besides Jog, they wouldn't get away with it.

Sinister wrote:: Here is what Deity's next message said (the one that replaced mine):

***Edited By Deity.

Neji..... dont do this. there are times you are cool, there are times your not, this is one of the later.

weither or not sinister believes all that i truly dont care, this is not deleted b/c of 1 persons opinion. Its deleted b/c he didnt bother to post it himself.

Sinister you got problems with jog thats fine and good, but if you got shit to say you say it dont send some kid over here with a mesage. man up next time.

this going back and forth of this guy said what on this site and yadda yadda yadda.... if you got enough of a opinion to write up over a page on the topic clearly you care about it, dont puss out and send neji to do some shit that makes you both look bad.

this isnt about your opinion, its about the way it was presented, i hope thats clear.

Typical Jog response. They fucking know your banned yet they pull this shit. Shit like that makes me want them all to go fuck themselves(excluding the newer members who come here)

Sinister quoting Deity wrote:: and for w/e its worth, your new skill squad of random diff clan guys of viking, you neji, tyrlan would get beat and be beat very, very decidedly. a 2nd or 3rd rate jog squad would be your team, as would sor afh and prob sdj/oes. Regardless of individual skill you guys arent a team, at all, and the old timers fought with the same team for a year or more.

That plus you speak of a puller?!!? honestly youd get your ass handed to you, and its not debatable. I haven't seen anyone in far too long that knows how to deal with good pullers. a good puller you dont even see, and nullifies all the cheap ass choke moves that exist today. you forget, pulling was done away with by the clans you derived from/originated from b/c they couldn't keep up and had to play with separate rules.

Fucking retarded. Deity seriously pull your head out of Jog's high horse ass and look around you. You barely even play this game, and when you do you get your ass handed to you by abyss noobs. And we all know Jog try's there hardest all the time. If you want to actually back up what you say then fucking prove it dude. Jog has been speaking for years on how much better they are then the actual pro's of this game. Never once have they proved it. Mastaisac even said that I was better then him. There are some cool Jog members, who are not fucking retarded all the time(jeff,isac,newer members). Jeff even said himself he hates how his clan acts like dicks to everyone, and how they take everything out of proportion.

With all this being said, and to sum it up.

JOG you are a lot like Millennium in a lot of ways. Mill are all brainwashed into thinking that their leader Shocker is the best at jedi, and conquest. Even when it is proven otherwise they still believe he is the best. They think people like me and sinister are noobs, because that is what they were told. Jog is the same way. I would hope that JOG consisting of older players (18+) would be smarter then Millennium noobs but I guess I was wrong.

If you want to actually prove to everyone that you(JOG) are the best, How about you actually fucking show us. Prove to us that you can beat us. Prove to use that you can even get half our score. Prove to us that your not washed up bums that spend all day talking about the glory days and how you used to be the best. YOU GUYS BARELY EVEN PLAY THIS GAME. Your guys are not even has-beens YOUR A BUNCH OF NEVER-WAS.

Got It Memorized?

Subject: Re: JOG's high horse Sun Jul 11, 2010 7:48 pm

{JOG} VIKING wrote:: Tylran is correct. About why Deity deleted Neji's post. And Neji was banned because Deity even stated or it might have been Masta, that no message passing would be allowed. Then Neji and Deity have a flame war over a different thing which resulted in Neji's ban. Just to clear things up and you seriously made a topic about us once again where no where in NSvsOS did we flame you. You flamed us first in a topic that was no flame whatso ever towards any of you.

Are you retarded, Viking? You took no part in this and your already making this bovine and out of the world judgements and being a critic. Deity started that flame war mostly because he provoked me. The post after I tried to be a little nicer, and still prove him wrong because he's retarded and just gloats about how amazing him and JOG are. The next post he comes at me in total intent to flame me, which I was not baffled by (seeing how its Deity).

He only cares about his opinion, nobody else matters to him. He's the same little arrogant ass hole he was back in Aaylas from Hell. He thinks keeping his distance and standing behind a building with double pulling makes him and the entire clan great. AFH lost to how many noob clans, even with their best line up? Then he has the guts to tell me off and say I'm barely an average player when last we played, I mopped the floor with him and a bunch of good players on his team when my only good teammate was Shockr. He left after dying the 30th time without a single kill, not to mention we were heroes, outnumbered, and out-gayed. I was like 30-3 before I left to get on WoW.

Deity is just blinded by the past, he knows nothing of the present and enjoys pissing people off with these false, fruitless assumptions. I would start taking some of his posts seriously, had he an education and know how to type. He just isn't worth it, after all this I believe it more than I did when I was back in JOG. He's just a beat up old scum-bag with Demensia.

With that said, I think I'ma finish leveling my DK. GEEZUS.

Subject: Re: JOG's high horse Sun Jul 11, 2010 7:51 pm

Prove to you what? We already proved to you countless times. WE DON'T PLAY MATCHES ANYMORE! This is just sad now. It's always the same people. Sinister, Neji, Fearless, Devil, Kratos, and LAK. You 6 just make clans to try to beat us. So we would go after you. Has anyone noticed that you 6 are the leaders of basically every clan active. You guys always have the same members join. Every single time. GOR, JOG, SIN, DSB, and MILL are the only Jedi clans still alive. You know why? Because they aren't run by you guys.

Seriously, just try and remember. This might take a while due to so many clans you all created. And note that each one survived only 2 months or less. Although the third vVv has survived a bit longer i think. And the reason the clans died wasn't because there were no members, it was because the leaders couldn't handle it so they make a new clan with a different tag but with the same members and the process repeats.

vVv 3 TIMES - Sinister and Fearless. A clan isn't suppose to be created again in the first place.

LA 3 TIMES - Neji

Famous- Devil, Neji, Sinister, Kratos. I was actually impressed with this clan. You guys got 4 out of 6 JOG hatters in one clan and then started flaming us to get a match with you. That was the sole purpose of this one clan out of many with the same purpose and the same members. Maybe even Fearless was in it too, I don't remember. But the reason I was impressed with this clan was that it survived a whole MONTH! Then when it was about to die after that, it revived for another entire WEEK! BRAVO!

FOX - Sinister and Devil I believe.

MTD- Neji. Actually lasted a pretty long time for Neji. Maybe 2 months.

DSX - Devil. Had a lot of members, but died within 2 months.

Samurai - LAK and Kratos. Died within one month. Same members as the dead LSJ and soon reborned LSJ.

There is so many more that I didn't even touch on. These were the ones that just popped into my mind first.

All dead clans because of the leaders.

I remember when FOX was just created and Neji said on the Abyss chat : (Not exact words but the same message) OMG. What number clan is this for Sinister? 9? 8? 7?

I am not lieing about what Neji said. It was close to 9, 8, and 7 too. I promise you he said something with that message very close to what I said.

Again with Neji. When the second vVv was created, or beginning of the third, I told Neji when are you going to join vVv. He said I'm never joining that clan. Now present day, he's in it. I promise to you all again that he said something along those words with the same message as I just typed.

And now you may all think I am breaking my promises, but another comment I remember and Sinister said it. This was when Sinister stopped playing and retired, around when Famous was created and a bit before that. Sinister said something along these words. : I don't have anything to prove to anyone anymore. The game doesn't even have much interest to me anymore. Now I know why JOG doesn't play matches now. I promise you all once again that he said something along those words with again the same message. I also believe Snakebite (if any of you remember or know who he is) was there and posted: Thank you for understanding our reason now.
I even think Sinister posted that in a topic here which it still might be here if you guys don't believe me. Go look for yourselves.

SO STOP FLAMING JOG JUST BECAUSE WE DON'T PLAY MATCHES ANYMORE. WE ARE YOUR #1 PUBLIC TARGET BECAUSE OF THAT. AND THAT IS FINE BECAUSE IN THE PAST CLANS AND JUST THE PAST IN GENERAL, YOU HAVE DONE THIS FROM THE BEGINNING OF TIME. NEVER SUCCEED THOUGH. WONDER WHY! SO GET OVER IT. YOU ARE ALL SAD AND HOPE YOU GET JUST DESSERTS AND YOUR LONG AWAITED KARMA IN REAL LIFE!

Subject: Re: JOG's high horse Sun Jul 11, 2010 8:07 pm

{JOG} VIKING wrote:: MTD- Neji. Actually lasted a pretty long time for Neji. Maybe 2 months.

I hope your not saying Neji created MTD. MTD has been alive for a long time and is run by Dex. The clan is also all conquest so dont drag them into an assualt argument. If i got anything wrong then I'm sorry.

Subject: Re: JOG's high horse Sun Jul 11, 2010 8:16 pm

{JOG} VIKING wrote:: Has anyone noticed that you 6 are the leaders of basically every clan active.

Urck... that's a big booboo. Suspect

P.s.
LOL!!! Long viqueen post!!!

Subject: Re: JOG's high horse Sun Jul 11, 2010 8:33 pm

{JOG} VIKING wrote:: Prove to you what? We already proved to you countless times. WE DON'T PLAY MATCHES ANYMORE! This is just sad now. It's always the same people. Sinister, Neji, Fearless, Devil, Kratos, and LAK. You 6 just make clans to try to beat us. So we would go after you. Has anyone noticed that you 6 are the leaders of basically every clan active. You guys always have the same members join. Every single time. GOR, JOG, SIN, DSB, and MILL are the only Jedi clans still alive. You know why? Because they aren't run by you guys.

First off, we don't make clans with the single intent to beat or play JOG in a match. You're not that important and we've been well aware that we are better for quite some time. This is a delusional and pretentious claim made out of self-righteousness... aka you are on a high horse. Hop off.

Secondly, SIN is DSB, genius.

Third, vVv plays just as much if not more than those clans and Fearless is the current primary leader. I just hop on then and there for shits n giggles. Thank you for assuming though.

Viking wrote:: Seriously, just try and remember. This might take a while due to so many clans you all created. And note that each one survived only 2 months or less. Although the third vVv has survived a bit longer i think. And the reason the clans died wasn't because there were no members, it was because the leaders couldn't handle it so they make a new clan with a different tag but with the same members and the process repeats.

vVv 3 TIMES - Sinister and Fearless. A clan isn't suppose to be created again in the first place.

A bit longer? vVv has been good and well for over half a year. LSJ has been good and well for 2 years, minus Samurai which was Kratos attempt to create a clan and hand over to his apprentice, Manny. This is not what happened. You sound like Deity here. "The reasons the clans died"... who are you? The all-knowing Jesus himself? No. Dude, the first vVv disbanded because I quit to play 360 not to mention the other leaders were Spidey, who had his own clan (FOG) to attend to and Hattori who had his own clan on PS3/360/PC (Ninja) to attend to. The second vVv lasted over three months. It ended over trivial circumstances... all it was, was a simple misunderstanding that upset everyone. Had nothing to do with leadership... but THANK YOU FOR ASSUMING that what you think is fact.

Viking wrote:: Famous- Devil, Neji, Sinister, Kratos. I was actually impressed with this clan. You guys got 4 out of 6 JOG hatters in one clan and then started flaming us to get a match with you. That was the sole purpose of this one clan out of many with the same purpose and the same members. Maybe even Fearless was in it too, I don't remember. But the reason I was impressed with this clan was that it survived a whole MONTH! Then when it was about to die after that, it revived for another entire WEEK! BRAVO!

I never flamed anybody to get a match. The sole purpose of this clan was not to get a match with JOG. Once again, you are making pretentious claims out of a self-righteous view of yourself... or rather are repeating what you have heard Deity and others say. This makes you look weak, in particular weak-minded.

Viking wrote:: MTD- Neji. Actually lasted a pretty long time for Neji. Maybe 2 months.

DSX - Devil. Had a lot of members, but died within 2 months.

Samurai - LAK and Kratos. Died within one month. Same members as the dead LSJ and soon reborned LSJ.

There is so many more that I didn't even touch on. These were the ones that just popped into my mind first.

All dead clans because of the leaders.

Neji never made MTD. Nice try.

Samurai was an experiment.

Viking wrote:: I remember when FOX was just created and Neji said on the Abyss chat : (Not exact words but the same message) OMG. What number clan is this for Sinister? 9? 8? 7?

I am not lieing about what Neji said. It was close to 9, 8, and 7 too. I promise you he said something with that message very close to what I said.

Again with Neji. When the second vVv was created, or beginning of the third, I told Neji when are you going to join vVv. He said I'm never joining that clan. Now present day, he's in it. I promise to you all again that he said something along those words with the same message as I just typed.

And now you may all think I am breaking my promises, but another comment I remember and Sinister said it. This was when Sinister stopped playing and retired, around when Famous was created and a bit before that. Sinister said something along these words. : I don't have anything to prove to anyone anymore. The game doesn't even have much interest to me anymore. Now I know why JOG doesn't play matches now. I promise you all once again that he said something along those words with again the same message. I also believe Snakebite (if any of you remember or know who he is) was there and posted: Thank you for understanding our reason now.
I even think Sinister posted that in a topic here which it still might be here if you guys don't believe me. Go look for yourselves.

Maybe Neji did say that at the time. So what? I have said this before; Neji and I have a love-hate relationship, always have and always will. It's complicated (no homo). Yes I do remember Neji saying that about vVv, and the point of this is...? To what? Show that Neji contradicts himself? Everyone does this my friend... even you.

Yes I did say that I understand why JOG doesn't play matches and I still understand. I am not the person urging JOG to play matches, that would be Devil and Kratos. I don't care to prove that I am better when I already know I am... Devil and the others are different though. So direct your notes of contradiction toward them... not me.

and please... don't post assumed information. It makes you look like an ass, like Deity. When you know and understand something for certain in regards to the clans and why they died, then by all means go ahead and speak up. Until then, please... stop... with... the... goddamn... assuming. It is irritating beyond belief. And the fact you believe what they say without question tells me you are much more impressionable than I had originally thought...

Subject: Re: JOG's high horse Sun Jul 11, 2010 8:56 pm

You think vVv has been here for a long time and you type it like it is a long time. Maybe for you, the person who changes clans atleast 10 times a year. JOG has been here for over 4 years and so has the other clans like GOR. Maybe not all 4, but atleast 2. And maybe I did assume, but from your guys past, it seems from my view point i would be right.

Then i guess this isnt towards you. mostly towards devil and kratos then. but i talked about you more because u are the one who made this topic so it only seemed the right person to yell at.

and btw, this would be #643 flame toward JOG that was unsuccessful.

I dont know how to quote since i already typed so this is what u said sinister. :

I never flamed anybody to get a match. The sole purpose of this clan was not to get a match with JOG. Once again, you are making pretentious claims out of a self-righteous view of yourself... or rather are repeating what you have heard Deity and others say. This makes you look weak, in particular weak-minded.

So you admit that part of the clan was to get a match with us as you said the SOLE purpose of this clan was not to get a match with JOG, but partly it is.

Even though you guys don't care, JOG isnt going to play you devil. we are better than you and we know it. bigger man if you know what that is.

Subject: Re: JOG's high horse Sun Jul 11, 2010 8:58 pm

Well in the middle of my post, I noticed Sinister's reply, and he about summed it up for me. Lol.

Viking your just blinded by your own pride. You are ignorant of what goes on in these game, and how much competition there is for somebody down in the gutter such as you. You assume being around 4 years makes you the top dogs, automatic win for every match. From my view, JOG hasn't even given it a chance to fight any of the tough clans around these days? Why, maybe its about your record, or you just don't have the desire to prove you've still got what it takes even when everybody frowns upon you.

Nobody is antogonizing JOG to do a much with the exception of Kratos and Devil, but if you guys want to stop looking like blinded fools that are washed up in the past, at least scrim, or experiment with other clans other than GoR... Then again, if you don't care what the community thinks of you, then don't do it. JOG can think their the best in the game, Shockr can think he's better than Fearless. Everybody has their own thoughts running through the rifts in their minds.

Nobody is making clans to prove they are better than, or even want to get a match with JOG. Most say it isn't worth it, some say it is. The way you talk about JOG being able to beat anybody, I'd like to see it in your gameplay, not on a website.

And I never made MTD... noob.

Subject: Re: JOG's high horse Sun Jul 11, 2010 9:22 pm

ok quick recap here:

JOG counts the number of times they have been flamed. they proclaim them to all be unsuccessful. hm you'd think with over 600 flames you'd take the hint that you need to change.

Viking is talking about jog not doing matches anymore. anymore? you were never even in a battle. I don't get it, Gor has been around for what? over 3 years? They still do battles. Lsj has been around for 2 years, they still do battles.

(Sin) was made by me and jman, and it's still going on.

one more thing, we're not JOG haters, we're just not afraid to speak out against corruption, unjustified actions, lies, and people who think they're better then everyone else.

Send us the good scrubs JOG, don't send in a kid talking about things he doesn't know anything about.

Subject: Re: JOG's high horse Sun Jul 11, 2010 9:39 pm

{JOG} VIKING wrote:: You think vVv has been here for a long time and you type it like it is a long time. Maybe for you, the person who changes clans atleast 10 times a year. JOG has been here for over 4 years and so has the other clans like GOR. Maybe not all 4, but atleast 2. And maybe I did assume, but from your guys past, it seems from my view point i would be right.

Then i guess this isnt towards you. mostly towards devil and kratos then. but i talked about you more because u are the one who made this topic so it only seemed the right person to yell at.

and btw, this would be #643 flame toward JOG that was unsuccessful.

I dont know how to quote since i already typed so this is what u said sinister. :

I never flamed anybody to get a match. The sole purpose of this clan was not to get a match with JOG. Once again, you are making pretentious claims out of a self-righteous view of yourself... or rather are repeating what you have heard Deity and others say. This makes you look weak, in particular weak-minded.

So you admit that part of the clan was to get a match with us as you said the SOLE purpose of this clan was not to get a match with JOG, but partly it is.

Even though you guys don't care, JOG isnt going to play you devil. we are better than you and we know it. bigger man if you know what that is.

vVv has been around for the time that I said. Go to this site: vvvclan.forumwise.com - Find the earliest post (it should be in the first forum) and then go back about a month. Mid-December of 09 - Mid-July of 2010, 7 months. That's how long we have been around this time around. I don't understand how the duration of certain clans has anything to do with JOG being on a high horse. Are you trying to say you are better because you have been around for 4 years? Congratulations... I'm happy for ya.

I bet you look down upon so-called "clan hoppers" don't ya? Guess what, that is a battlefront 2 exclusive term... meaning it is not used outside of this game because this game is full of itself. I been in more clans than I can count on SOCOM... some disbanded, others I left. Does that make me a noob? Because I didn't remain loyal to a virtual tag beside my name? Please... such narrow minded thinking. You'd be surprised to know I co-led a clan on SOCOM 3 that had a 64-0 clan battle record... care to guess how long it lasted? A little over 4 months. Is this a joke clan to you? I'm just curious...

I am not admitting anything about Famous. I don't know shit about that clan other than Kratos is the one who caused the first brick to fall which led to its demise. But I am pretty damn sure it wasn't made just to get a match with JOG. No I am not saying it was a "side purpose" either. I'm saying it was made... to be made... playing JOG was just an added potential bonus. I said that because you claimed yourself that it was made solely to do so... I was only discrediting your claim. Once again, you assume... do you realize how annoying that is?

Subject: Re: JOG's high horse Sun Jul 11, 2010 11:06 pm

Sinister I replied to you on the JOG site. . . I am sure you can retrieve it one way or another. . . But I decided to come here to answer the rest of the stuff that I have seen written here.

First: Sinister your ban as you know is because of all the past history you have had with us ( this counts being on our private forums, posting on our private forums, and expressing your views of JOG on JOG"s site. Having an opinion is one thing, but you do go out of your way to attack us. I have seen countless comments here, there almost every website you browse by. They are your opinions, and you have the right to say them, but JOG also has the right to keep you off its site, cause we personally are done listening to them.

Second: Why Sinister's post wasn't originally allowed was because he was banned and we don't allow post from banned players. However I did lift this to post your comments sinister because I did refer to you in my original post and I thought it was only fair that you could respond. But Deity was right in not allowing this to occur in the first place. Now if he didn't know you were banned to begin with, I am not sure, however he did soon after. So did isac. . .

Third: Neji, your ban holds because reguardless of you not trying to do anything wrong by posting sinisters' comments, it was your reaction to deity's move that got you banned. I intially lifted it cause I wanted to get sinisters comment here, not realizing I had it already. So then I put the ban back on. I know you don't like deity too much Neji, but if you do go after him or another member of JOG like that they do have the right to ban you for it. But deity's lifting of sinisters comments was not because he was afraid of them. . . they barely had anything to do with him, but simply he felt that it shouldn't be allowed do to the ban. . . or that you sinister should have posted them at first. ( even thought you couldn't due to the ban)Either way that was the reason.

Fourth: Don't like Deity, fine. . . don't like many of JOG members, fine. . . hence why most of you in this conversation are not welcome on the JOG site. Its not because we fear you in anyways, not that what you state we honestly care too much about, however we do reserve the right to keep it off our forums.

As for how this conversation got into another JOG is scared to fight, is scared to lose their record, etc etc is just absolutely beyond me. The topic had nothing to do with it. Once more we are perfectly fine with how things are. We enjoy playing in public, we are content with who we are.

As for you guys not respecting old greats such a clean, chicali, frantic, etc etc etc, you couldn't beat them when they were playing. . . and playing them a year after when they kinda play here and there is not the same thing as playing them when they continously play over a period of time.

. . . .to be continued cause the screen is all weird on this end. .

Subject: Re: JOG's high horse Sun Jul 11, 2010 11:21 pm

As for assumptions. . . and opinions and players trying to state them as fact, or who has been in what clan and for what reason or how many times you been in these clans is pointless to me.

All I can do is attest for JOG. . . and myself.

Devil, I have no issue with your style. However some do. Some have issues with my style too. However when it comes down to it, we both can handle our business. I can handle myself in 1 vs 1 play so can you. You will just have to brush it off when someone wants to attack you for it. I do. . .

The topic I made was never meant to be JOG vs everyone and who would win type thing. . . .however even that could be interesting cause I could pretty much claim alot of you and old timers as Joggers. . . along with old greats. lol

We play with gor cause they are allies. We do so to benifit our friendship. You do not see us post results of them on our holonet cause in the end its not something that is needed to be posted.

The battle of DSX vs JOG, yes we did scrim alot against eachother and yes we did win everyone of them. One of them had one of your best lineups in them, in which devil your team lost by 50. Yes neji was the high scorer on that, and yes he played as a puller, and yes you had issues fighting against it. You were the puller too on your team. . . however with that said my score was quite good in that battle as well, and I used neither puller or choker. You just lost by 50+. . . yet you didn't see us boast about that a year ago now did you.

With that said. . .

Our members have their opinions. Some are a little more hard edge than others. Same with you here. I tend to walk a finer line on things like this, but seriously. . . JOG bashing: enough is enough. Its the same old shit you all have been saying for years. Yes we know many of you don't like us. We know you weren't around when we were in our hey day. We know we don't brag about our skill for the past 2 years, even though you conitously try to through this in our face. WE are retired, happily. We play for fun. . . for shits and giggles. I am sorry many of you couldn't play us in your prime. . . or when the team that went 2 years without losing at JOG's prime. It just was timing. However we continue to play in rooms and servers now, so you are welcome to match your skills against our members at any time in public servers.

With that said. . . thank you for your time.

Subject: Re: JOG's high horse Mon Jul 12, 2010 12:37 am

My beef with JOG is simple; you're fake.

You pretend to be something you're not. You say one thing and do another. You conveniently mention the fact that you were undefeated for 2 years and make the claim you are the best, but have not proved that in some time. In fact, as time has passed this has been disproved. Your recruitment forum has been pretty empty for a while, now why is that? I imagine you would respond with something like "star wars is not a recruiting priority for us right now", yet you have Viking claiming that you guys are a part of the most active clans on the game, even though you've but 2 or 3 active players on a daily/bi-daily basis.

You mention the fact that JOG beat DsX in a scrim to indirectly support your own belief that you are still the best, but the only two people you mention are Devil Wing and Mephiles. Who else was in this scrim? Devil and Mephiles can't account for an entire team's effort, let alone an entire era of players. This is not a fair point in my opinion. As I said before, pit the greats of today against the greats of the past... we will come out on top.

Another thing that bugs me is this... whenever there is some sort of a dispute, JOG has justification for everything. You have an excuse for anything and everything that is detrimental to the reputation of your clan and the skill of your players (past or present). You claim a golden and spotless record, but this is not the truth. You are no better than anyone else. The fact you perceive yourselves as higher, more mature, and more skilled is the thing that bugs the shit out of people like me. It's a front and it is utterly disgusting. It's like being back in high school with superficial females. If you are so content with who you are, as you say you are, then why rub things in everyone's faces all the time? Why bring up past occurrences that mean nothing now? Where is the logic?

I even had video evidence proving that I was simply fulfilling my duties as an admin when I booted Jmeeey for kill-stealing from the abyss server and you STILL denied it. You tried to justify every single little thing that happened in the video. You tried to complicate the entire matter into something more so that it favored JOG. It didn't matter if it was on purpose or on accident, it happened, you were all warned, it continued to happen time and time again and so you were dealt with accordingly, in a fair and unbiased fashion. You took offense to this even claiming "I have personally been booted by him, now my teammates have as well. That would be abusement of admin power." <- This statement alone exemplifies the very point I am trying to make!!

(and in actuality I was not the one to boot Jmeeey. Mephiles beat me to the kick by a second or two, but still unsurprisingly I received all the shit for it)

Learn some humility. Learn to admit you are no better than anyone else who plays this game. Be real. Acknowledge the fact that you do these things, take responsibility. For once learn to say that you are wrong. Come back down to Earth with the rest of us. Hop off your high horse. Drop the self-righteous act. If you do these things I can assure you that you won't find yourself on the receiving end of so much flak.

Now I predict you will respond to the above with something like "It is not our intention to come off in that way. . . it just so happens to be like that." or whatever... just more justification and less manning up.

It's true I was banned for things I said and how I expressed myself on your site, however that ban was lifted. I posted again on the site under the name Sin. Off immediately provoked me, I of course retaliated and brought up the fact he booted me from the JOG server because I was whooping his ass while he was trying to double pull. Before I was even able to play, he constantly switched my team back and forth. Upon mentioning this incident, I was immediately banned. Now tell me, was I banned... or was I silenced?

This is why I post on this site and will never again on yours. I am free to speak as I please and so are others. You can say what you want here so long as you don't carry on like Demoslayer (spamming porn links) or Spartan (constantly instigating feuds and provoking admins). We don't place a muzzle on you for speaking your mind, even if it differs from what we would prefer. Do we have more arguments or heated discussions? Probably... but to me it is healthy form of discussion.

As for what you said about the old school players...

Prime or not, it doesn't matter. Everyone reaches a peak in their game and stays there so long as you play the game. It doesn't matter if you take a break for a year and come back for 2 months. Desire has nothing to do with level of play when you consider the fact Trelum and Clean were playing on an almost daily basis. Clean was in multiple matches with LSJ (not just against FOG), not to mention requested passwords to VIPs such as FOG's. Trelum played for months and months and months. He was competitive AS HELL. You have no idea how many times he and I got into it over nothing. Frantic requested the pass to the LSJ VIP too at a time. So don't sit there and tell me the only reason those guys weren't good is because lack of motivation or desire... You don't play a game or request a VIP password unless you want to and that in itself is desire.

Clean was very competitive at this time. I remember playing with him in LSJ when we played MERC in conquest. They jumped the count before a map started... immediately Clean was raging on the mic, cussing them out... saying anything and everything to put them down every way possible. He even went to their chatbox if I remember right. If that is not competitive... if that is not taking the game serious, I don't know what is.

To further prove this point I will note that I no longer give two shits about things I used to and I still play at a high level. The same thing goes for Devil Wing. The same thing goes for Neji. The same too I think can be said for you... and for Isac. Now why is this? It's because once you get to a certain level, it doesn't matter if you care or not, you still have the ABILITY to play well. This was something your so-called "old school greats" were not able to do when they came back and were met with the new wave of players, gameplay and tricks... even when given months and months of practice. As I said before, ASK THE PLAYERS WHO PLAYED WITH CLEAN, FRANTIC, TRELUM, ZAREX, ETC when they came back. THEY WILL TELL YOU THE SAME DAMN THING. Please, stop denying it!! It's fucking beyond infuriating. It's to the point where I don't know if you deny it out of pride or if you are just that goddamn delusional. and FYI when they came back they ALL played CONTINUOUSLY over a PERIOD OF TIME.

Subject: Re: JOG's high horse Mon Jul 12, 2010 3:06 am

you seem a little angry there sinister calm down, you'll give yourself a nose bleed. . .

So here it finally is. . . all this. . . all this time, your reason for hating JOG. . . is you think we are fake. Thats . . . nice. Is that all?

Fake. . . JOG plays for two years, doesn't lose a clan match , beats all that played against them. . . then retires. Did we lose some scrims along the way yes. . . but thats not clan battles. . . when we put our best on the field, we won. After this, many of our guys moved on. I came back a bit later. . . and the remaining JOG members played for fun. Oh yes we trained to get better, but even then I stated. . . we want to be the best we can in public servers, and have fun while doing it. I personally told lsj. . . I hope you guys become the next best clan. Tell me I am lying?

We were done dominating clans. . . we had moved on in mindset as clan, yet played for fun, cause we enjoyed the game. Some of you couldn't stand this. It was your egos that got in your way, cause you knew at the time that anything won at that time was nothing, cause you couldn't show case it against the best there was. JOG's dominance was still too fresh in some of your minds. It eirked you to no end. I can only assume this because this is why LSJ wanted a match with us back then. That is no longer the case, but it is the very foundation of what some of you still state here.

Last year, when Neji was in JOG, I believe we had the best clan in the game once more. But we didn't flaunt it. Neji felt the same way. There was no need to flaunt it. We were good with who we were, and what we had accomplished. And I only bring up the dsx battle now, because devil stated it, and in the other topic on the JOG site, it dealt with pullers.

You have disputes all the time Sinister. Tell me who here haven't you gotten into a fight with. How many times have I seen you and devil get into it, you neji, you and meph? Kratos? After awhile Sin, you have to look into the mirror and think maybe its me thats the problem. . . Or maybe its everyone else?

JOG has its good days and bad days. We take ownership of things when we feel its just. We even apologize to each other from time to time when we cross the line with eachother. I believe I have even apologized to you for false aqusations before, when proven that they weren't true. Humility enough for you?

One would point out if you knew what that was? You, who constantly claims to be the best? Maybe you are, maybe you aren't. But there is no humility in that now is there? Maybe thats you being REAL again. . . now I know you will shout out from this how great you are and that you dare anyone to fight you to prove you wrong. . . but then you would prove my point now wouldn't you. Or perhaps you will say I already know I am better. . . I don't need to show you. Same difference. Either way, I know its probably going to kill you not to answer that in some sort of fashion.

. . .You still on the Jmeeey thing? We disagree with what is shown. You make a big bravado, a nice video of what happened. Then when I ask you to look at details, the conversation never happened. In fact, you went silent on the matter. . .

Its our intention to come off exactly how we do. . . you don't like it, then you can conitnue to whine about it over here. Either way we don't care.And peple can say what they feel is right on the JOG site, but there, you do so respectfully. You didn't get banned one day cause one day you spoke your mind, I would hope you are smart enough to realize that by now.

Now, desire. . . is everything. . . well almost everything. Desire makes you want to get better. Desire pushes you to be great. You had a desire to be one of the best and you did it. You were gifted, but your desire got you there. Once that goes away. . . and it does. . . or quiets itself. . . one is no longer the same. Perhaps you don't understand that. Either way it makes no difference. You feel how you want to feel on that matter. The topic on the JOG site was never meant to take shots at players. Now you state that you have no care but yet play at a high level. I too. . . .well you are correct. Once you are good, you always are good. However if new skills have been leanred, and one doesn't stay on top of it, then you fall behind reguardless of how good you may be. Point in case, I played with rand talor the other day. He was always a great player of his time. He lost a step. He hadn't stayed up on the newer moves. The newer style. One must stay on top of it, or they get left behind. I know for a fact that clean never sat there and truelly cared in the end. I knew where his heart was at prior to him even coming to lsj. So thats nice of you to bring that up. I can only imagine that you posted him because you hate him. . . you would probably boot him on the spot if he came into a server that you ran. . . in fact wait. . . you have even stated that before somewhere on these very forums.

Now if all this gets you angry for some reason, or makes you laugh, or have pity on me and JOG. . . then fine. . . it doesn't matter. Let me just clsoe with this sinister. If you weren't so good at this game,if you hadn't accomplish what you had accomplish, no one would give you the time of day. People would just ban you on site. If JOG was so fake, and we weren't any good as you claim, then why do you keep bringing us up all the time? Is it because we are so fake, or you just want to make yourself feel a little bit more important?

Food for thought. . . no disrespect intended.

Subject: Re: JOG's high horse Mon Jul 12, 2010 3:17 am

oh totally forgot your last paragraph. . . I can speak for Frantic and can tell you, he could care less when he was playing. As fgor clean,. I knew where his heart was a year and half prior to the lsj issues. . . as for zarex, he would talk the talk, but he never really got back into it, to learn newer styles that were being presented. Same with frantic, and clean. Now trelum I can't speak for. Perhaps he did care. If you beat him then thats fine. I never said you weren't good. . . To play is one thing. . . to truelly care to get better, is another. When you played with these guys. . . what had they been doing? Clean had been in jail. . . Frantic, fully into his job. . . hence why you don't see him much on now too. Zarex. . . 360. . .

they didn't sit there and really continously play, like you had been doing at that time. Like lsj had been. . . desire, has a lot to do with everything.

Subject: Re: JOG's high horse Mon Jul 12, 2010 4:28 am

.

Subject: Re: JOG's high horse Mon Jul 12, 2010 4:40 am

Post is directed towards JOG Viking......

I know your not serious, you are really going to bring up past clans and tell us they fail because our leadership is suspect. I don't see any clan I have ever been apart of as a failure. I guess it comes down to how you view success.

#1. Devil and I founded Famous....so yea I think I might have been in it you dumbass.

#2. You talk about how long JOG has been together on this game, you act like you were there {Tbo}Tub or whatever name you were under. Taking credit for something you had no part in creating is pretty sad. You are now a Jedi master of a clan that no longer does clan matches, congrats. Now, I have no problem with JOG not doing clan matches, I just feel that if you are not officially competing, you are not truly fully active on swbf2.

#3.You talk about clan hopping like its a bad thing. Look around you real quick, look at the top ten lists, look who are regarded as the best players in the game today. Lemme name off a few for ya, Devil been in his fair share of clans, still regarded as a top tier player, Neji and I have made numerous clans together, still regarded as great players, and even Sinister has been in many clans. The fact is you get better by playing with better players so you tend to migrate with the better players. Whether its a new tag or not the same players are together plus and minus a few names. Does this make us bad players and make clans shun us? No, we are still well respected, not necessarily well liked, but, respected nonetheless.

#4. You say JOG doesn't need to play clan matches any more... No, they don't, however this means they shouldn't regard themselves as the top Assault clan in the game today(You have proved nothing to the NS players). JOG can say they were the best in their day(which you were not even apart of). If you want that title your gonna have to come and take it from us. I speak for all of vVv when I say, bring it on, you bring your best line-up and we'll bring ours and we will let our game do the talking(Even though I know this will never happen).

Subject: Re: JOG's high horse Mon Jul 12, 2010 4:52 am

Once again, everyone's ego gets outta hand and starts a conflict. This is a video game guys, not the world cup. It really doesn't matter who's better than who.

I understand that NSvOS is an interesting argument, but making assumptions and bringing in irrelevant things to satisfy ur "We're the best in the game" belief is just rediculous.

Viking, take a break.
Devil, get of JOG's nuts.

At least put SOME effort to stay on topic. Theres no need to point guns at each other.

Just play the game, maayyn.

Subject: Re: JOG's high horse Mon Jul 12, 2010 4:56 am

Subject: Re: JOG's high horse Mon Jul 12, 2010 6:02 am

What was once a simple "old-school vs. new-school" topic has derived into spitting, scratching, and deadly swords being flung from the tongue. I originally wasn't even going to make a post on this thread, but now I feel I have to seeing as how Fearless is throwing some dirt on Viking. So, I will defend my JOG brother, that's where Loyalty comes in to play (with a capital L!).

"You talk about how long JOG has been together on this game, you act like you were there {Tbo}Tub or whatever name you were under. Taking credit for something you had no part in creating is pretty sad. You are now a Jedi master of a clan that no longer does clan matches, congrats. Now, I have no problem with JOG not doing clan matches, I just feel that if you are not officially competing, you are not truly fully active on swbf2."

- Taking part in something that he had no part in creating... Well then, that might as well be said for anyone who isn't named Jeff, Orion, or Chicali. I am only about two years into JOG, Leo's been around for about 2 1/2 yrs, etc. Although it may be true that Viking wasn't around during this game's inception or JOG's, he is still as much apart of JOG as Jeff, Me, Deity, Leo, Legacy etc, is. To me it really isn't a matter of longevity anyways, it's always been about what this person can bring to the table. Are his skills top notch? Is he mature and respectful. Does he play the game correctly. Does he add positive effects to this clans? It's these positive beneficial factors to people that makes that person more valuable. Surround that person with other people of same values and you get... well... JOG. Time doesn't concern me. It just so happens that I found JOG first before Viking did. Fate perhaps? Destiny? idk. Viking is a crucial piece to the JOG puzzle just as anyone else in JOG is. Vik is as much apart of JOG's "creation" as Jeff.

You toss the word Jedi Master around as if it meant absolutely nothing to JOG's ranks. Need I remind you that only legends may warrant an entry. Such names as Mr. Clean, Jeff, Deity, Rand Taylor, Frantic, Myself, Jmeey, Viking, Leonardo, Chicali, Woooo, Porch Monkey, etc. Oh wait, those names seemingly have no effect on Sin's co-horts impervious brains. Have you even heard of the word "respect" and "elder"? Or is it not in your vocabulary?

"Now, I have no problem with JOG not doing clan matches, I just feel that if you are not officially competing, you are not truly fully active on swbf2."

- Isn't that what we've been hammering in your heads for the past two years? Thank the lord! We finally have someone who sees the light! All hope is not lost after all!

"You talk about clan hopping like its a bad thing. Look around you real quick, look at the top ten lists, look who are regarded as the best players in the game today. Lemme name off a few for ya, Devil been in his fair share of clans, still regarded as a top tier player, Neji and I have made numerous clans together, still regarded as great players, and even Sinister has been in many clans. The fact is you get better by playing with better players so you tend to migrate with the better players. Whether its a new tag or not the same players are together plus and minus a few names. Does this make us bad players and make clans shun us? No, we are still well respected, not necessarily well liked, but, respected nonetheless."

- lol, all you new-kids with your clan badges. Back when this game had a lot more class in it, it was considered embarrassing and shameful to have so many clans. If anything, this proves the utter disloyalty and commitment most people have now-a-days to their respective clans. Do I really need to get into Wing's profile here, Neji's? There is no need to, the whole community knows about it. You people wouldn't even be able to reply back to someone's post about your app without them closing it a second later. All they have to do is look at previous clans. There is more to this game then the skill one has. That's all gravy cream, but it's your character and the way you present yourself on this game that truly marks you out from the droves. If a class A noob PM'd me and had desire, a great character, and just a nice guy appeal, I'd say that he was the best this game had to offer. Screw someone's skill, what good is skill when one joins a clan and then leaves two days after? Nada, zilch, zero, that's what.

"Does this make us bad players and make clans shun us?"

Yes, most definitely. But you wouldn't know seeing as your idea of a clan is the same three people.

"You say JOG doesn't need to play clan matches any more... No, they don't, however this means they shouldn't regard themselves as the top Assault clan in the game today(You have proved nothing to the NS players). JOG can say they were the best in their day(which you were not even apart of). If you want that title your gonna have to come and take it from us. I speak for all of vVv when I say, bring it on, you bring your best line-up and we'll bring ours and we will let our game do the talking(Even though I know this will never happen)."

- I'm sorry, but you assume a 2-0 record on SWBF2 makes you the best in assault? lol, you still have to get past SOR's record of 12-0. At this pace, you might make it in three years... might. I'll end this with your quote Fearless.

"Now, I have no problem with JOG not doing clan matches, I just feel that if you are not officially competing, you are not truly fully active on swbf2."

Exactly.

Subject: Re: JOG's high horse Mon Jul 12, 2010 11:51 am

i dont even see the whole point in this topic. JOG can do what they want and everyone else can think what they want to think.